Stuff You Should Know
The digital duo Josh and Chuck deconstruct your world.
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Josh Clark
And apparently, it’s getting more and more difficult to get people to follow the rules, which -
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, why is that?
Josh Clark
Apparently, people are dumber than they used to be.
Chuck Bryant
Sort of. What the deal is from what I read is the nature of the crimes these days with gang members and the like, you’re getting younger and younger people turning states evidence. So it’s not like the old days of Sammy the Bull Gravano was like in his 50s, and he turns states evidence. What was the story you sent from Newsweek? That one girl was 17.
Josh Clark
Seventeen. She was a member of, I think, MS12, which is Hispanic gang.
Chuck Bryant
In Virginia.
Josh Clark
I think it’s all over the place, but she was based in Virginia.
Chuck Bryant
Right. And she apparently had a very vivid memory.
Josh Clark
What’s that quote? That quote is beautiful.
Chuck Bryant
Yes, her court appointed lawyer said, “She wasn’t just a witness. She was like the Rain Man of witnesses.”
Josh Clark
Yeah, she liked to talk.
Chuck Bryant
So she spilled it, bro.
Josh Clark
She did, and the relocated her.
Chuck Bryant
Successfully.
Josh Clark
To Kansas City, I think.
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, they moved her to Kansas City, she did a good job for a little while, and then she was like, “Oh, I miss my friends, lol. Let me get back in touch with my friends.”
Josh Clark
And had them come out and visit.
Chuck Bryant
Yeah.
Josh Clark
At one point, her handler came out to check on her, and apparently, her handler was supposed to be her stepfather, and she hid her MS12 friends in the bathroom of the weekly hotel they had put her up in while he visited. So she wasn’t really trying to stay alive very hard.
Chuck Bryant
She wasn’t. And you know what?
She didn’t.
Josh Clark
No, she didn’t, actually.
Chuck Bryant
She went back home.
Josh Clark
Yes, she got homesick and lonely and went back to Virginia, and what, two days later, they found her floating in a river. I think some other person in the Witness Relocation Program, an official of it, called her a fatality waiting to happen.
Chuck Bryant
Yeah, they knew she wasn’t in for the long haul.
Josh Clark
So it is becoming increasingly difficult to protect people. But the – as we said, the marshals have a really good budget. They are what’s been called the gold standard of witness protection. If you go down to the state and local level, if you’re a witness seeking protection, you’re probably going to die.