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Stuff You Should Know
The digital duo Josh and Chuck deconstruct your world.

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Podcast Transcript | Listen to the Podcast Now

How Witness Protection Works | October 27, 2009

 
Josh Clark

And apparently, it’s getting more and more difficult to get people to follow the rules, which -

Chuck Bryant

Yeah, why is that?

Josh Clark

Apparently, people are dumber than they used to be.

Chuck Bryant

Sort of. What the deal is from what I read is the nature of the crimes these days with gang members and the like, you’re getting younger and younger people turning states evidence. So it’s not like the old days of Sammy the Bull Gravano was like in his 50s, and he turns states evidence. What was the story you sent from Newsweek? That one girl was 17.

Josh Clark

Seventeen. She was a member of, I think, MS12, which is Hispanic gang.

Chuck Bryant

In Virginia.

Josh Clark

I think it’s all over the place, but she was based in Virginia.

Chuck Bryant

Right. And she apparently had a very vivid memory.

Josh Clark

What’s that quote? That quote is beautiful.

Chuck Bryant

Yes, her court appointed lawyer said, “She wasn’t just a witness. She was like the Rain Man of witnesses.”

Josh Clark

Yeah, she liked to talk.

Chuck Bryant

So she spilled it, bro.

Josh Clark

She did, and the relocated her.

Chuck Bryant

Successfully.

Josh Clark

To Kansas City, I think.

Chuck Bryant

Yeah, they moved her to Kansas City, she did a good job for a little while, and then she was like, “Oh, I miss my friends, lol. Let me get back in touch with my friends.”

Josh Clark

And had them come out and visit.

Chuck Bryant

Yeah.

Josh Clark

At one point, her handler came out to check on her, and apparently, her handler was supposed to be her stepfather, and she hid her MS12 friends in the bathroom of the weekly hotel they had put her up in while he visited. So she wasn’t really trying to stay alive very hard.

Chuck Bryant

She wasn’t. And you know what?
She didn’t.

Josh Clark

No, she didn’t, actually.

Chuck Bryant

She went back home.

Josh Clark

Yes, she got homesick and lonely and went back to Virginia, and what, two days later, they found her floating in a river. I think some other person in the Witness Relocation Program, an official of it, called her a fatality waiting to happen.

Chuck Bryant

Yeah, they knew she wasn’t in for the long haul.

Josh Clark

So it is becoming increasingly difficult to protect people. But the – as we said, the marshals have a really good budget. They are what’s been called the gold standard of witness protection. If you go down to the state and local level, if you’re a witness seeking protection, you’re probably going to die.

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